How do we reach ethically sound decisions despite our uncertainty about which beings—such as decapod crustaceans, plants, and AI—might be (or become) sentient?
Some beings, such as primates or dogs, are clearly sentient. Many others might be, but we're not sure. How do we treat these 'edge' cases?
Dr. Jonathan Birch is a Professor of Philosophy at the London School of Economics and the author of the new book The Edge of Sentience: Risk and Precaution in Humans, Other Animals, and AI. In it, he presents a framework for thinking about which beings might be sentient and about how our policies could account for this. He joins Many Minds podcast to discuss the space of (possibly) sentient beings.
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"We may not know what it's like to be a bat, but we're pretty confident that it's like something — that bats (and other mammals) are sentient creatures. They feel pleasure and pain, cold and warmth, agitation and comfort. But when it comes to other creatures, the case is less clear. Is a crab sentient? What about a termite, or a tree? The honest answer is we just don't know — and yet, despite that uncertainty, practical questions arise. How should we treat these beings? What do we owe them?
[In this episode] we talk about Jonathan's work at the nexus of philosophy, science, and policy — in particular, his role in advising the UK government on the welfare of cephalopods and decapods. We discuss what it means to be sentient and what the brain basis of sentience might be. We sketch his precautionary framework for dealing with the wide-ranging debates and rampant uncertainty around these issues. We talk about several prominent edge cases in the natural world. And, finally, we consider whether AI might become sentient and, if so, by what route. Along the way, Jonathan and I touch on: plants, crayfish, bees, larvae, and LLMs. We talk about 'sentience candidates' and the 'zone of reasonable disagreement'; about Jonathan's stances on octopus farming and live-boiling of crabs; about the 'run-ahead principle' and the 'gaming problem'; and about the question of whether all conscious experience has a valence."
VIEW the show notes for links with detailed information.
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Templeton World Charity Foundation's Diverse Intelligences is a multiyear, global effort to understand a world alive with brilliance in many forms. Its mission is to promote open-minded, forward-looking inquiry in animal, human, and machine intelligences. We collaborate with leading experts and emerging scholars from around the globe, developing high-caliber projects that advance our comprehension of the constellation of intelligences.
Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute (DISI), made possible through a grant from TWCF to the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). The Many Minds podcast is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from Assistant Producer Urte Laukaityte. Creative support is provided by DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Artwork featured as the podcast badge is by Ben Oldroyd. Transcripts are created by Sarah Dopierala.
